From 7ed76b6a0752e04710e309c150b2d330ddf3822a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "http://joeyh.name/" Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 18:35:22 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 1/4] Added a comment --- .../comment_2_dae167e473c60dace129c66beb0af384._comment | 7 +++++++ 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+) create mode 100644 doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_2_dae167e473c60dace129c66beb0af384._comment diff --git a/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_2_dae167e473c60dace129c66beb0af384._comment b/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_2_dae167e473c60dace129c66beb0af384._comment new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..41e0922c82 --- /dev/null +++ b/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_2_dae167e473c60dace129c66beb0af384._comment @@ -0,0 +1,7 @@ +[[!comment format=mdwn + username="http://joeyh.name/" + subject="comment 2" + date="2015-05-16T18:35:22Z" + content=""" +Unfortunately stack exchange is nearly unusable for me on dialup. In order for me to contribute to any git-annex communication channels, it needs to be something that can be taken offline, like git or email. +"""]] From 6d1e5988186eabbf6665663d566d93248238c31f Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "https://id.koumbit.net/anarcat" Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 21:45:36 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 2/4] finally open that discussion directly --- ..._a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn | 130 ++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 130 insertions(+) create mode 100644 doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn diff --git a/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn b/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..1a4e1525ac --- /dev/null +++ b/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn @@ -0,0 +1,130 @@ +I has been [[discussed|devblog/day_268_stressed_out]] +[[twice|devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs]] that the +current [[forum]] support system is not ideal for providing +support. It constitutes the [largest part of this wiki][] yet we +sometimes get duplicated questions and it seems the forum may be a +barrier to entry for people. + + [largest part of this wiki]: http://git-annex.branchable.com/devblog/day_268_stressed_out/#comment-e0814585df0047e6d4e11515aebe1dec + +A few alternatives have been proposed, from a mailing list to using a +StackExchange site. This post is to discuss the possible +alternatives. The requirement is that the system may be available +offline and on low-bandwidth connections yet enable conversations +better than a simple web forum or mailing list; which may end up being +the only solution considering the first requirements, but let's give +it a try. :) + +Stack exchange +============== + +i looked up how this works in stackexchange, and it turns out they +provide [regular dumps][] of the data hosted. unfortunately, it's a +gigantic zip file and not really designed for low-bandwidth +use. There's also a [data explorer][] that was promising, until i +realized that the query engine takes up 154KB, three times the space +of the regular search engine (~54KB, which I guess is way too much for +dialup). + + [regular dumps]: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/category/cc-wiki-dump/ + [data explorer]: http://data.stackexchange.com/ + +Also: there is a [mobile version][] of all the stackexchange sites, +which take up around 3KB, but still only works online. There's an app +for mobile devices as well, but it [doesn't support offline access +either][] - so another dead-end. + + [mobile version]: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/104458/switch-to-mobile-site-on-standard-browser + [doesn't support offline access either]: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/220036/offline-features-in-stack-exchange-app + +Stackexchange runs a [garbled mess of IIS, MSSQL, ASP, Redis and +Elasticsearch][] so there is probably little hope in integrating into +something like git. I have asked for the [proverbial pony in this +stackexchange question][] (yes, it's all very meta), describing the +use case, but i am not holding my breath for a change. + + [garbled mess of IIS, MSSQL, ASP, Redis and Elasticsearch]: + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_Exchange#Technologies_used + [proverbial pony in this stackexchange question]: + http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/256573/best-way-to-use-stackexchange-sites-offline-or-on-dialup + +Askbot +====== + +Besides, SE sites are based on proprietary software, and i am not sure +we'd want to advocate that here. There are free software alternatives, +of which i made an [evaluation about 2 years ago][] after which we +tried Askbot at [Koumbit][]. it never took off: staff didn't seem +interested in it so much and we never made people aware of it too +much. plus, it didn't integrate with existing authentication +mechanisms (which are a little bit of a mess for us)... + +But it does seem like an interesting alternative, and has [primitive +email integration][] where you can ask questions by email, but not +answer (!). I haven't looked at such support in other software, but i +suspect it is similarly not a priority as they struggle to monetize +their free software... + +Most of those free software alternatives of Stackexchange are written +in Python/Django or Ruby/Rails (iirc) with SQL backends, which would +probably make git integration... also "challenging". + + [evaluation about 2 years ago]: (https://wiki.koumbit.net/FaqService#A.2BAMk-valuation_logicielle) + [Koumbit]: http://koumbit.org/ + [primitive email integration]: http://askbot.org/doc/sending-email-to-askbot.html + +Discourse +========= + +From that point of view, maybe [discourse][] could be an interesting +alternative. It has built-in email support, as it is designed as an +alternative to mailing lists. With a simple setting, you can +collaborate directly by email. What is interesting, compared to the +mailing list model, is that posts can be collaboratively edited to +(for example) arrive at a collective wisdom by refining an answer (or +a question). There are also interesting community moderation and +reputation systems. + +There seems to be some [offline tool][] for Discourse, but it's +unclear to me how it works, as it seems to be a separate (nodejs!) +application that connects with a discourse plugin. There's a +[discussion about offline suport in discourse][] in the meta site... + +Discourse uses Ruby/Rails and PostgreSQL, and somewhat is only +[officially supported in Docker][]... + +The discourse people do [warn against switching existing +communities][] to Discourse because of the resulting friction, so it +is also in that spirit that I open discussion about this here, that +is, in the hope the change can be acknowledged, supported and +discussed by everyone here, in a spirit of consensus building. :) + + [offline tool]: https://github.com/etewiah/offcourse + [discussion about offline suport in discourse]: https://meta.discourse.org/t/offcourse-a-proof-of-concept-offline-reader-for-discourse/22356 + [discourse]: http://discourse.org/ + [warn against switching existing communities]: + http://www.discourse.org/faq/#switch + [officially supported in Docker]: + https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md + +Mailing lists +============= + +Of course, the forum could simply be moved to a mailing list. The +would have the advantage of reducing the barrier of entry to the site, +reduce the load on the wiki, at the cost of adding the additionnal +"how do i subscribe to a mailing list" barrier of entry, which, oddly +enough, exists for a lot of mailing lists... + +Like it or not, web forums do enable a lot of less technical users to +participate because they only need their web browser, and crossing +that boundary can be hard for some people. Mailing lists also do not +necessarily favor collaboration as much as the other systems... + +Web forums +========== + +There's a plethora of "php-bb-like" software out there, i am just +ignoring them for now, as I am not very familiar with them and they +have never been too attractive for me, but people are of course free +to edit this page to add suggestions! :) From 3677a1577e41fddff26b4e3328f85f8d434f038b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "https://id.koumbit.net/anarcat" Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 21:46:20 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 3/4] Added a comment --- .../comment_3_52179fc326e681d8fbf85ee8963f352c._comment | 9 +++++++++ 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+) create mode 100644 doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_3_52179fc326e681d8fbf85ee8963f352c._comment diff --git a/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_3_52179fc326e681d8fbf85ee8963f352c._comment b/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_3_52179fc326e681d8fbf85ee8963f352c._comment new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..f85d63350e --- /dev/null +++ b/doc/devblog/day_285__tuning_git-annex_unused_refs/comment_3_52179fc326e681d8fbf85ee8963f352c._comment @@ -0,0 +1,9 @@ +[[!comment format=mdwn + username="https://id.koumbit.net/anarcat" + subject="comment 3" + date="2015-05-16T21:46:20Z" + content=""" +interesting! i didn't think of those requirements, which do seem quite stringent, but i am certainly sensitive to them, considering i will be spending my own significant amount of time with intermittent access soon. + +i have opened a todo item to move the discussion somewhere more relevant, see [[todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system]]. +"""]] From 2553b4e3da520fe6d2e4c751ad68685662f0a04c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "https://id.koumbit.net/anarcat" Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 21:48:03 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 4/4] fix links --- ...ble_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn | 16 ++++++---------- 1 file changed, 6 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn b/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn index 1a4e1525ac..6596a1ea82 100644 --- a/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn +++ b/doc/todo/enable_a_discussion_forum_or_support_system.mdwn @@ -37,16 +37,14 @@ either][] - so another dead-end. [mobile version]: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/104458/switch-to-mobile-site-on-standard-browser [doesn't support offline access either]: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/220036/offline-features-in-stack-exchange-app -Stackexchange runs a [garbled mess of IIS, MSSQL, ASP, Redis and -Elasticsearch][] so there is probably little hope in integrating into +Stackexchange runs a [garbled mess][] of IIS, MSSQL, ASP, Redis and +Elasticsearch so there is probably little hope in integrating into something like git. I have asked for the [proverbial pony in this stackexchange question][] (yes, it's all very meta), describing the use case, but i am not holding my breath for a change. - [garbled mess of IIS, MSSQL, ASP, Redis and Elasticsearch]: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_Exchange#Technologies_used - [proverbial pony in this stackexchange question]: - http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/256573/best-way-to-use-stackexchange-sites-offline-or-on-dialup + [garbled mess]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_Exchange#Technologies_used + [proverbial pony in this stackexchange question]: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/256573/best-way-to-use-stackexchange-sites-offline-or-on-dialup Askbot ====== @@ -102,10 +100,8 @@ discussed by everyone here, in a spirit of consensus building. :) [offline tool]: https://github.com/etewiah/offcourse [discussion about offline suport in discourse]: https://meta.discourse.org/t/offcourse-a-proof-of-concept-offline-reader-for-discourse/22356 [discourse]: http://discourse.org/ - [warn against switching existing communities]: - http://www.discourse.org/faq/#switch - [officially supported in Docker]: - https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md + [warn against switching existing communities]: http://www.discourse.org/faq/#switch + [officially supported in Docker]: https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md Mailing lists =============